‘Help The Hooters’, ‘Save The Jugs’, ‘Don’t Let Cancer Steal Second Base’, ‘Cop a Feel’, ‘Save The Tattas’, ‘Save The Boobies’, ‘Save The Headlights’: these are just some of the slogans which have been used to promote breast cancer awareness and fundraising around the world.
There’s a new slogan appearing on twitter at the moment. It’s ‘Feel Them Up Friday’ (#feelthemupFriday).
EllyMc (@Ellymc) took issue with this slogan, believing it sexualised breast cancer awareness. She expressed her thoughts in a piece titled ‘On Public Health, Prudes and Hashtags’ which she then circulated through twitter last Thursday. I agreed with her, so re-tweeted another tweet about it by @daiskmeliadorn.
Well, didn’t that cause a flurry of responses? I was making a big deal out of nothing, picking a fight, it was just a ‘fun hashtag’. I was even accused of saying women touching their own breasts was “sexual”. 
Now, I really don’t mind anyone disagreeing with my arguments. I’m kind of used to that. But I’d prefer an argument about what I said, not about what I didn’t say.
I have no issue at all with women touching their breasts and support self-examination. I’ve done it myself and found something suspicious which was checked out (there’s some family history of the disease, so I try to be vigilant). Fortunately, it wasn’t cause for concern.
But I do have an issue with the kind of language used in these campaigns because it emphasises the sexual desirability of breasts, especially as objects for male sexual gratification – and not a woman’s health and wellbeing. ‘Feel Them Up’ is associated with the sexual behaviour of some men. The phrase is linked with and suggestive of adolescent males groping girls. (You would never hear the sentence ‘She felt him up in the back of the car’).
Even if the phrase is appropriated, and it is women doing the ‘feeling’, these connotations remain. The language contributes to the broader cultural sexualisation of the breast regardless of whatever arguments are employed to justify its use. Using these words in mainstream breast cancer awarenss campaigns normalises them and makes them OK – just a bit of ‘fun’. This wider commodified sexualisation of the breasts contributes to many negative outcomes, not least mixed feelings about breast feeding. The sexification of the breast is mentioned in this journal article.
Many of the slogans used in breast awareness campaigns are about saving boobies/hooters/jugs. But many breast cancer survivors lose their breasts. What do these campaigns say about them? They survived, their breasts did not. Perhaps this is why survivors who have had mastectomies don’t feature much in breast cancer advertising – like this public service announcement for ‘Saving The Boobies’ (note also the apparent jealousy of the smaller breasted women towards the woman with the larger breasts who is attracting all the attention).
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tkB264wZZk&has_verified=1[/youtube]
And don’t tell me this nude modelling site – billed as a ‘Breast appreciation gallery’ – is really about “Helping defeat breast cancer”. The fundraising angle can be used as a nice cover for displaying women’s naked bodies – their ‘assets’ as described here – all in the name of a ‘great cause’.
“Nude models wanted. Share your beauty with us and help Q’BellaT with a great cause… If you’re outgoing, fun, daring, over 18, female; and you think your assets belong here…then…contact us with your information. Tell your friends to join us!!!”
Is it any wonder that the less ‘sexy’ cancer causes find it more of a struggle to attract funding and donations?
Here’s a great article which expresses my thoughts on this. It’s by Beth Mendenhall, a senior in political science and philosophy at Kansas State College, published in February:
Without the appropriate context, one might interpret slogans such as “I < 3 boobs,” “Help the Hooters” and “Save the Jugs” as lubricious frat-boy appeals to more cleavage shots in the next “American Pie” movie.
In reality, these slogans and others like them are the new vanguard in breast cancer
awareness campaigns. Despite its good intentions, the focus on saving breasts because they are objects of sexual desire is an insidious reinforcement of sexist norms and explicitly excludes most breast cancer survivors from the campaign.
The new culture of breast cancer awareness can be characterized by two features: appeals to saving the breasts, rather than the women, and slogans couched in vernacular terms like “boobs” and “hooters.” These campaigns treat women’s bodies as objects whose central purpose is the sexual gratification of the male libido.
See the wave of “Don’t Let Cancer Steal Second Base” T-shirts. When a campaign to raise awareness and funds to fight a deadly disease appeals to the potential loss of a sexual object, rather than the potential loss of a human life, it sends a powerful message about what our society values. The sexism of breast cancer awareness normalizes the view that women are sexual objects rather than subjects with agency and dignity.
The impacts of sexism aren’t limited to discomfort and irritation. Thousands of violent acts against women, including battery, rape and murder, are committed because the perpetrator views his victim as nothing more than an object created for his pleasure.
Anxiety and loss of confidence, eating disorders and even suicide are symptoms of women viewing themselves as imperfect if their bodies don’t reflect the perceived norm. If we valued women as subjects with agency, rather than passive objects with “boobs” attached, many of these social ills would be greatly reduced.
It’s undeniable that breast cancer awareness campaigns have been effective – despite being less fatal than other types of cancer, breast cancer receives, by far, the most funding. It works because it reflects and reinforces sexist culture, forcing women to assume the position of passive objects of male desire to be considered effective activists. This pragmatist blackmail ignores the violence and self-deprecation women experience as a result of the norms it reifies. Slogans like “We’ll Go a Long Way for a Good Rack” imply that a woman with less-than-optimal breasts doesn’t deserve as much effort.
One of the most ironic effects of boob-centric breast cancer campaigns is their complete exclusion of breast cancer survivors who have had mastectomies. The new culture of breast cancer awareness is perversely inhospitable to those it ought to support by emphasizing the link between female sexuality and healthy breasts.
This might explain awareness T-shirts with mock street signs saying “Pardon Our Appearance While We are Under Reconstruction.” A recent manifestation of this exclusion was the Facebook.com bra-color-in-status trend, which explicitly excluded survivors with mastectomies and was a painful reminder of their deviance from social norms of sexuality.
Breast cancer awareness is a worthy and honorable goal, but off and especially on-campus campaigns should critically examine the messages they send and refuse complicity with a pervasive culture of sexism. We should not give carte blanch to sexist rhetoric, even if well-intended. When we place women’s value in the maintenance of their sexualized body parts, rather than their subjectivity, we license insidious forms of physical, structural and mental violence.
Also read: ‘Is “Save the Ta-tas” the New Feminism? I Hope Not’
Support Remission Possible: Amanda Ghirardello, a Melbourne breast cancer survivor, is climbing to Mt Everest Base Camp next month to raise funds for Australia breast cancer research. Read about it and support her here.
73 Responses
Well said!
I think anything that brings awareness and attention to the issue is a good thing.
I can’t agree with the ‘anything that brings awareness to the issues’ line.
It basically means that all things are justified to bring awareness to an important cause.
I don’t believe you can justify undermining women’s equality and freedom in a number of other areas, because it raises money for breast cancer awareness.
There are other ways to raise funds.There are other ways to support survivors of breast cancer. Continually highlighting the importance of breasts to those who may not have them anymore, is pretty nasty in my view.
I agree the focus on saving the flesh/gland/breast is a ridiculous oversimplification of a health concern. “Saving the …” as though they are an endangered species seems detrimental in my opinion – because it does not reinforce the role women have to play in being vigilant about their own bodies and health. I have no problems with using confrontational language in order to make breast self examination and body awareness a completely normal, acceptable, routine part of life for all people (including men). I believe the majority of breast cancers are found by (women) noticing a change in their breast tissue – leading them to seek medical advice. I promote the campaign to “Feel Your Boobies” for this reason, and I have no problem with the word “boobies”. I don’t think it means I am any less concerned about the way in which women and girls are overtly sexualised in our culture.
I’d have to disagree with you Alex. In this case, not all publicity is good publicity. It may raise awareness but not about the real issue.
I liked this article. It has lots of pics of boobies, but needs more.
Thanks for helping prove my point Bill.
Disagree – you jumped on someone else’s bandwagon to promote yourself.
Had you included the background on why it was called #feelthemupfriday it would have been more credible.
However, this lighthearted campaign launched by two sensible women (I’ve never met either but they certainly seem sensible!), was a friendly reminder to check your boobs.
And why not have a bit of fun with it? thank goodness we keep getting reminders to check our boobs.
I applaud #feelthemupfriday – you ladies did a fab thing!
Dana, next time try and put forth some arguments rather than accusations.
Great article. I’ve long been of the opinion that breast-cancer awareness campaigner had a pretty easy job: boobs are sexy, sex sells. Yell “save the boobs” in a crowded theatre and watch the coin roll in.
And while popular culture’s love affair with breasts gives the campaign the necessary element of fun (necessary for it to be successful), there is a tipping point and I agree that the feel-em-up, second-base slogans cross the line from cheeky to tawdry. (Though at last I know what “getting to second base” means; I can go back and watch every American coming-of-age movie from my youth and finally be in on the joke.)
It’s murky water to navigate though.
Of course it’s wrong to objectify women (or anyone—I’m a thin man who feels a little less secure every year when those firefighter calendars come out), and wrong to objectify body parts. But then some women wear push-up bras and low-cut tops and it’s hard to know where to look (philosophically speaking, of course).
But then, if you could separate breast cancer from the popular-culture fixation on breasts, you wouldn’t raise a lot of cash for research. Aye, there’s the rub.
I never once saw Benny Hill running around in speed-up chasing a woman with a large pancreas.
Oh thanks Anna, as your point in your post was great….?!
Considering the 2 originators of #feelthemupfriday are Aussie women, I can’t understand why you didn’t tweet them for a comment/feedback?
And Anna? My point was that the background of #ftuf was not included;
Dana, when I posted (scroll up), I disagreed with Alex and explained why.
When you posted, you accused the author of ‘jumping on the bandwagon to promote herself.’
My understanding is that Melinda got plenty of feedback the other day when she retweeted someone’s comment about this issue, all of it hysterical and missing the point, none of it explaining any background to #feelthemupfriday.
Excellent post, Ms. Reist!
My thoughts on the subject, written for Politics Daily months ago, at the height of the facebook bra-color meme:
My Bra? Color Me Furious
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/01/11/my-bra-color-me-furious/
Are the campaigns Melissa refers to American? ‘Hooters’ certainly isn’t a term widely used in Australia, so I do wonder about the relevance here… Mainly the Australian approach here has been all about the ‘Pink Ladies’ – a highly successful approach too! Feelmeup friday sounds tongue in cheek and nothing to get steamed about really…
Bill sounds like a troll and any posts should be regarded as such.
What do people think of Bettina Arndt’s weekend article comparing Medicare subsidisation of womens’ prostheses with the fact that men who have had prostate cancer can’t get subsidised Viagra?
Donna, your article is brilliant. Last line:
‘Or any other campaign that emphasized the womanliness, the beauty, the importance of breasts. Never mind the breasts. Save the women.’
Exactly!
Self respecting women AND men have cause to find this campaign offensive…
Women because it assumes the value & contribution of their lives isn’t enough to draw support for breast cancer funding
and
men because it assumes they are such peverted cave men that they don’t value the women in their lives for anything more than the sexual pleasure they bring.
The two women who came up with this campaign have therefore resorted to offensive stereotypes of men & women that sell both sexes short. How dissappointing.
Anyone who disagrees that these campaigns sexualise breasts and diminish women as human beings really hasn’t read this post. The arguments are clear, and even though I already disagreed with the whole “feel them up” hashtag this post outlines a whole bunch of excellent arguments against this type of campaigning that I’d never even thought of.
I sit here reading this article and comments, and I am totally gob-smacked.
There is issue with this line of awareness campaign? Seriously?
I have no reservation about somepeople finding the language not exactly to thier liking, but to seriously compare this to the “ongoing objectification of women”…
Those strong, brave women who have battled and survived cancer and sustained the loss of one or both or their breasts (I salute you), in my opinion, wouldn’t give two-hoots (pardon the pun) that they were not approached to participate in this kind of campaign, they, and their families, would be alot more focused on the fact that they were alive.
And I hate to bring this to your attention Melinda; but a woman can find another woman attractive, to the point where they may enter into a romantic relationship with one another They even have a name for this “condition” it’s called lesbianism. These “lesbians” who also posses boobs, may enjoy campaigns such as these, for 2 reasons: they raise awareness of breast cancer; and they get to look at tits…yet you only make reference to males, and the gratification of the male libido, and other such drivel.
And lets not forget the fact that men CAN get breast cancer too.
Please don’t get me wrong – I do support any kind of breast cancer awareness campaigns, especially if they raise money for the cause. And yes, while Melinda you may rip my nuts off for giving a donation to a chick who’s wearing a funny T-shirt, in my opinion, and just happens to have big jugs, what you are failing to realise is, that I would give equally to a survivor of breast cancer- one I would be walking away from hoping the money will help find a cure, the other in somber contemplation, hoping the money will help find a cure.
You make your point well in your article, so I really don’t think you need to be sensationalist, throwing words like rape, murder and battery in there – could you be any more off topic?
It detracts from your argument. yes, these tragic things happen, and I feel strongly for anyone who has suffered any of these atrocities. but to say “he views the woman as an object for his pleasure” seriously?
I suggest that you read up on these topics before writing about them. I am confident that these despicable acts are not committed in the pursuit of pleasure… Usually it’s to gain a sense of power and control, not forgetting to mention the individuals committing such malicious crimes are, for the most part, seriously psychologically impaired. Which ever the case are not doing these things for pleasure.
I am happy to debate this further, or take any direct comments from anyone via bardsant@gmail.com.
Until then
Hooray for boobies!
The reference to rape, murder and battery is in relation to the impact of sexism and they were not ‘thrown in there’ by Melinda but were in the article that Melinda has reproduced here. Perhaps you might want to do some reading on these issues before you post Anthony? Those words might be ‘sensationalist’ to you, but it is reality for many women. Men’s sense of entitlement to women’s bodies, their understanding that women exist for their visual and sexual pleasure, contributes to an environment where women are more likely to be sexually harassed and raped.
Your anecdotal tales about giving equally to the woman with ‘big jugs’ as you would to the survivor of breast cancer, doesn’t play out in real life. Other illnesses suffered by women do not receive nearly as much funding as breast cancer does. Ovaries aren’t ‘hot’ you see, men aren’t interested in ‘saving’ those.
What is also amazing is that you claim to speak on behalf of lesbians. You assume that they behave just as badly as men towards other women. Even if they did, it still wouldn’t be right.
You end your post with ‘hooray for boobies’ proving Melinda’s point yet again, that ‘boobies’ are celebrated over and above the lives of women.
Thanks for your piece Donna. It was terrific.
A little oversensitive I think. I’m a lady, I have two breasts. I’ve never had anyone I know die of breast cancer but I’ve had friends (some in their 20s and 30s) who have had scares. I have breastfed two children. I didn’t always remember to check them but now that I have introduced my husband to feel them up friday they get checked weekly and so do his boys.
I also found it amusing that the article had underscores in br_ast but would write boobies quite clearly are you too prudish to spell out the anatomically correct word. Do you also use terms like pee pee for penis and who who for vulva.
There are problems with oversexualising breasts e.g. facebook banning photos of breastfed bubs but allowing advertising with norks galore, and people being offended by breastfeeding in public. HOWEVER BREASTS ARE SEXY no matter what shape or size or how even they are they are sexy and should be thought of as sexy. They are also functional and should be thought of as that as well. But it is like anything if you don’t have breasts or a nice bum or long legs or blonde hair that is sexy also.
I think adding a little humour to what can be a traumatic subject with the intention of preventing it from happening (particularly young women respond well to this sort of advertising). As far as I’m concerned me and my husband can feel mine up every friday and we can call it what ever the hell we want without me feeling objectified as a woman.
Lighten up feminists
Thanks Alison. re “Clearly you are too prudish” to spell out the correct word. Clearly you haven’t spent much time on my blog. I did not write the words this way. Crikey did. It is their practice with words that might cause their newsletters to end up in spam folders. You will see that the original post on my site does not apply this.
Kel’ you obviously only skimmed through my comments.
I made a clear recognition, that women are raped, murdered and battered, actually I didn’t , I said “anyone” because believe it or not man are raped, murdered and battered too, with the 2 latter being more prevalent in some societies. But I digress. I only questioned the compulsion of having these topics mentioned in the article, they do not add to the main point.
And, I am still astonished that 2 apparently educated people, such as Melinda and yourself, cry out against sexism buy being rampantly sexist??e.g. Men’s sense of entitlement to women’s bodies” again, I do not dispute the occurrence of such truly horrid things, but it seems as though you feel every man has said entitlement, and please do correct me if I am wrong.
I feel truly sorry for anyone who has had the grave misfortune of contacting ovarian cancer, and I agree that it’s unfortunate that the appeals for donations do not receive as much as for breast cancer. A very close member of my family had a very serious case of endometrial cancer – which receives less support than ovarian cancer, but she has made a full recovery, which was a huge relief for the family.
So why is this the case? I really wish I could afford you an answer, I can only speculate that it is a combination of clever marketing and the fact that breast cancer is, unfortunately, more prevalent than most other cancers – ergo more people can associate with it, ergo more people will make donations.
One solution could be to donate directly to the National Breast and Ovarian Cancer Centre (www.nbocc.org.au) the women and men over there do some truly great work on both breast and ovarian cancer. I did note however that their website is asking if you have done your ‘cheeky check-up’…
And your fact-based assumption that men do not want to ‘save’ ovaries, baffles me even further? (I would like to see your stats on contributions to breast cancer vs ovarian cancer and how much men donated). The fact is that men want to father children equal to women wanting to mother them, if you don’t believe me, look around, see people? there’s your answer. if it wasn’t the case, we would have died as a species 100,000 years ago. And from what I remember of year 8 sex-ed I’m quite sure women need their ovaries in complete working order to procreate.
I have read over my comments twice now, and no where can I see where i spoke on anyone behalf, except for my own – I commented that lesbians MAY enjoy, and indeed they may, or they may not.
I don’t intend to sound clinical, but If a woman wasn’t alive, there wouldn’t be those boobs to be celebrated…
Another fact is that I am a 28 year old heterosexual male, my brain is wired to like boobs, it’s wired to like bums, it’s even wired to like vaginas – and I am far from ashamed for liking these features of the female anatomy, I celebrate my enjoyment of them, and every other part of a woman whether it be physical, mental or emotional.
Alison Lee – Good call!
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/06/s-xualised-br-ast-cancer-campaign-sendin
g-the-wrong-message/
My husband deals with the less ‘sexy’ cancers. You have a greater chance of surviving breast cancer than some of the ‘brown’ cancers he deals with but it is difficult to get people interested in the colon or the stomach or head and neck cancers… Just hasn’t got the same ‘marketing appeal’ sad that the little money that is available for research tends to go to the illnesses associated with the more outwardly ‘attractive’ body parts. There is so much information out there because of the money, celebrity and high profile marketing making early detection and treatment better. No one is out there selling T-shirts that tell 60 year old men and women (esp migrants) how to deal with changes in bowel movements… just doesn’t have as much appeal as ‘fun bags’. The shallow nature of marketing illnesses and treatments really gets to me. Mind you, that can be said for so many things today…..
What an eye-opener – I had no idea this campaign was happening. I agree with Melinda that this is further evidence of the ongoing sexual objectification of women. This is also contributing to the alarming precocious sexualisation of young girls.
Anthony, I did only skim your posts because it didn’t appear that you’re considering this issue and its impact on women. It’s really just a “yeah, but – some women like tits, some men get breast cancer, some men are raped too”. Yep – but ALL women are subjected to the objectification of our gender and the risks associated with that – as so elloquently put by Melinda.
My husband didn’t realise until I described for him what it is like for women in public spaces. Women do not walk alone at night – these days you can’t even catch a cab alone. (Most) women do not think it’s a compliment to be wolf-whistled, or asked to “show us your tits” by a Commodore full of blokes. Yet most women feel compelled to dress nicely, wear make-up. Some women put their breasts on display – some of us can either look matronly or wear a v-neck style – we are shaped by the cultural expectations imposed on us.
Breast cancer campaigns are the most successful of all health awareness and fundraising efforts in Australia. We do not need to resort to Benny Hill style sexism to achieve this – men like Glenn McGrath have shown that. I can’t see a campaign for testicular/prostate/penis cancers where men walk everywhere in a pair of Speedos that say “Keep it up – save women’s orgasms”. That’s because THAT campaign would be about saving men’s orgasms.
“ALL women are subjected to the objectification of our gender and the risks associated with that” Are you sure that wasn’t one big typo? I mean, ALL women? that’s a massive call, and the fact that you’re basing your opinion to be that of all other women is astonishing.
“what it is like for women in public spaces. Women do not walk alone at night – these days you can’t even catch a cab alone.” – I am woman hear me roar, but only when there’s a big strong man to protect me? I am sorry if I have misinterpreted that, but it’s just how it reads, and the fact that you speak for all women again, is a clear indication of your naivety.
I am a martial arts instructor, I am 6’2″ and weigh about 90Kgs, yet I know women that would kick the sh!t out of me if the need arose – and these women are about half my size, and would have no qualms in walking alone at night or catching a cab – maybe you just don’t know them… or have forgot to mention those women who are empowered enough, because it doesn’t fit with your silly argument.
But I am glad that you concede that it’s a cultural imposition, to wear make-up, low cut tops etc that is one step up from “it’s a male imposition”.
And I can only speak for my self here, but make-up, low-cut tops etc, I really don’t really buy into all of that stuff, and I actually know a lot of other blokes that don’t either. We really couldn’t give a toss. In my opinion, it’s a female p!ssing competition, to have bigger breasts, nicer clothes, a fancier hair cut. Because at the end of the day (or the start of it) Men, as partners of a woman, are going to see the face not made up, the hair in tangles, the lack of a push-up bra – and yet we are still there at the end/start of the next day, and the next. I work in a office of about 4000 staff, with approximately 80% being women, I see this sort of competitiveness every day.
And maybe you should have done more than skim my comments, because you will see that I am in total support of breast cancer awareness, and the impact of cancer on women. What I have particular issue with is the fact than the picture of men is painted with the same brush i.e. all men are misogynist, Neanderthal pigs. What also grinds my gears is that, the main theme through the article (and subsequent comments) portray that an awareness campaign such as this is objectifying women, and that’s men’s fault/doing. That breast cancer research gets so much in donations because it’s attractive, and that’s men’s fault. What a load of sh!t.
Let’s look at some facts here: Worldwide, breast cancer comprises 10.4% of all cancer incidences among women, making it the most common type of non-skin cancer in women and the fifth most common cause of cancer death. In 2004, breast cancer caused 519,000 deaths worldwide (7% of cancer deaths; almost 1% of all deaths).
Over half a million deaths!!!! Did anyone stop to think that this might be the reason it receives more donations? I don’t think so, you all seem concerned that men are objectifying you, and that’s the reason it gets what it does. It’s cancer we’re talking about here, not some scantly clad women on a bill board trying to sell cars/coke/iPods etc. I agree that advertisements like these do poses elements of objectification, but this is CANCER..CANCER KILLS, the campaigns are not an exercise in objectification, they are an exercise in raising awareness and donations.
I would like to see you inform a woman with a malignant breast neoplasm, that donations weren’t received through these campaigns because there was some wild conspiracy they had been designed (by evil men) to objectify women. Donations that would have provided much need support, and one day will hopefully lead to a cure of this terrible disease.
I am not an oncologist or anything (I only have a very rudimentary understanding of the science of medicine) but as I understand it, if scientists can crack the cancer code for one type of cancer it will open the flood gates to cure all cancers – I am aware that cancer is a generic term used to describe various conditions, but they all work in the same sort of way, More than happy to be set straight on this if I am indeed wrong.
All I can say is:
It’s a freaking hashtag. A clever one, too. And if you’d listened to the tasteful radio campaign that went with it, you’d know that being so dramatic about it was unnecessary.
I’m told that many women are scared of mammograms, and if a bit of naughty humour helps them get over their inhibitions, I say get over it. Bouncing boobs in ads is a whole other issue, and you may have a point there.
I keep trying to post this comment on Kerri Sackville’s website and despite it looking like it’s gone through, it doesn’t get published, so i’m posting my comment here instead…
To the anonymous poster, you claim:
“People sexually assaulted by the hashtag: 0.
Some people were offended – you can not ignore that. What they have ignored though is the ‘sexual assault’ does not have a monopoly on this language.”
Nobody is saying that people will read “feel them up friday” and immediately go out and sexually assault someone. That is ridiculous. What we are saying is that this kind of language- discourse, rather – contributes to a culture that enables sexual assault and harrassment to occur. It normalises an attitude of the “boys will be boys” variety. It is shaping a culture into one where sexual assaults and harrassment is minimised, trivialised, and to some extent, expected (eg “why was she wearing such a short skirt, surely she is asking for it!”)
recently my brother in law expressed outrage at the whole David Jones’ sexual harrassment debacle. the problem? “it’s not like she was raped. so the guy felt her bra strap from behind- so what?”
this is serious. he’s not the only one who doesn’t ‘get it.’ our language shapes our understanding and our way of thinking. it shapes cultural attitudes. saying “sexual assault does not have a monopoly on language” is ignoring the real impact our language has on shaping our reality.
I am disappointed that even in raising awareness for cancer, a very serious disease in which many sufferers do lose their lives, it’s all about sex. It seems that is the only way to sell anything these days is to make it about giant cans and sex. It is completely inappropriate.
Thanks for another great article Melinda.
I have watched this debate with interest.
I don’t think anyone is disputing that it is important that all women check their breasts and I applaud people and groups who encourage women to do so.
Cancer is huge in my family and having lost 2 aunts in 3 years to cancer, I am a great supporter of early detection and treatment.
I do think the Feel me up Friday idea was undignified and degrading and could have negative repercussions as discussed and pointed out by other bloggers.
Working in an organisation which is campaign driven, I understand the need to come up with catchy lines, slogans, taglines, etc. And there is a pressure to do so – but this is a process that is needs to be well thought out.
The term to ‘Feel me up’ is known for its sexual tone, we all know that right?
One just needs to venture out on a Friday and hear ‘Give me a feel’ ‘Get yer tits out’ ‘Let me check your cup size’ (maybe it’s just in the suburbs I live in!)
Urban Dictionary captures youth-isms and gender issues well, and a great place to check out wording before anything is linked to a campaign or ‘idea’. The meaning you propose is not the meaning for everyone. I am sure the ladies who put this together were aware of this?
Should you want to check out the meaning of ‘FEEL UP’ you can go to http://www.urbandictionary.com and type in feel up– please be aware that the wording for this is explicit.
There are 101 ways in which this idea could have been expressed differently. Feel me up Friday could sadly be used this weekend when the lads are out on the town ‘Hey its feel me up Friday, how about it?’
Cancer is an important issue, something that impacts many of us, but let’s keep degrading sexualised language out of it for the safety and the well being of women.
Dwight , I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on Boobquake a few months back. That seems a very much related idea. The comments here were quite interesting, I thought:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/04/26/boobquakes-and-brainquakes-to-fight-oppression/
Wow. Just wow.
Anthony, you need to go google ‘male entitlement’.
it’s like a friggin’ game of anti-feminist bingo in here. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/esme454/Bingo2-1.jpg
thanks for the link! your piece was great.
Anthony, we are so lucky to have a Man™ here to tell us what to think about this obviously gender-free issue. Our poor under-sized lady-brains may implode if we try to have reckless opinions of our own so I for one I am very glad to not take the risk myself.
You concede that you can understand that some people might find the language used offensive, but not the underlying message. Because us laydeez find coarse language distasteful, but objectifying our bodies to the point that our breasts become entirely separate to us is perfectly acceptable while vulgarities are not. Yahuh.
You take it upon yourself to speak for women who have lost their breasts to cancer. This campaign suggests that because no man can get to “2nd base” with them so oopsy, too late. Never mind, there’s still plenty of boobs to be saved yet! I’m sure they’re perfectly fine with that, if you say so!
We’re all aware that there are many lesbians that find pleasure in breasts. However, your argument is disingenuous at best due to the fact that overwhelmingly objectification is male-perpetrated. To argue that a small number of lesbians, many of which identify as feminist btw, are equal to the number of men objectifying women is perhaps just a wee bit silly *pat pat*
And yes, men can get breast cancer too. I can totally see how the minute numbers of male breast cancer sufferers are relevant in this discussion. Quick someone, objectify them!
You condescendingly suggest Melinda read up on feminist issues while throwing around words like “chicks” and “big jugs” and “what about the manz??!” – the irony, it burns!
You accuse women of being sexist when speaking about…y’know, sexism. You suggest that this sexism occurs in an equal society rather than a patriarchy, where the impact is vastly different due to the inequity in personal, political and financial power afforded to women.
You say “I don’t intend to sound clinical, but If a woman wasn’t alive, there wouldn’t be those boobs to be celebrated…” well perish the thought! Quick someone, save the life support system for the boobies!
Your brain isn’t “wired” to “like” anything. Your brain is socialized to objectify women. This is the norm in our society to the point where you are entirely blinded by your own privilege. Suggesting it’s an inherent part of you, it’s nature!1!!!!111! means you don’t have to take responsibility for it and it’s your biological right to act like a jerk, it is in your genes!
Yes, powerful, strong, intelligent feminist women are still unable to walk the streets alone at night. Being able to critique patriarchy does not actually mean we suddenly imbue immense physical strength to the point that we are free of the statistics of male-perpetrated violence against our gender (and yes, men can also be the victims of violence, most often perpetrated by…ahh, men).
Your argument that because of the severity of breast cancer, objectification is a non-issue is also disingenuous. No one is suggesting that breast cancer is not a serious issue, and it’s not a matter of objectification or nothing. There are plenty of other ways to raise awareness without reducing women to the position of Life Support System For Boobies (which are the property of men).
Oh dear, there are clearly some upset people here… There seems to be a lot of ‘all men are arseholes’ going on on this thread. Granted, some of them are, but the majority (in my experience) are not.
Frolic — I don’t believe that Anthony was saying that men weren’t responsible for their actions, I think his point was more along the lines that we, as humans, recognise the gender of other humans based on obvious sexual characteristics. Guys generally are ‘programmed’ (for want of a better word) to look for boobs, hips, etc — the signs of a sexually mature female. That is NOT to say that it’s all they see when they look at us, nor is it to say that when they see those things they can’t hold themselves back. And as for their sense of ‘entitlement’, well it’s not my experience (perhaps I’ve been lucky in my 42 years).
No, I don’t believe that women should be objectified, and yes, I think ‘Feel up Friday’ has negative connotations, and should have been thought through a little more carefully. That said, I would like to know who came up with the original concept? Was it a group of men? Was it a group of women? Who briefed the agency? What did the focus groups think? Were the objections being brought up in this forum discussed and dismissed? If so, why?
What saddened me most when I read the article was the fact that women who had lost their breasts seem to be excluded from these campaigns. My first experience with a masectomy scar was when I was young (about 18) and working in the underwear section of a large department store. I was the only person on hand (it was a busy lunch time) to fit a woman who had recently had her second breast removed (the first had been removed a number of years before). This was in the late 80s, and to say that the surgeon had butchered her was an understatement. I still admire that brave woman, and I hope that she lived a long and productive life. I also hope that through awareness and fund raising activities, more women will survive.
“Frolic” your comments were well thought out and had a level of substance to them, if they were made sans the sarcasm they may of actually had some merit. But good try, B+ for you!
I didn’t say women may find the language distasteful, I said that people might. I have strived to make all my comments a gender neutral as possible.
I certainly did not take it upon myself to speak for anyone, but myself, I clearly said my comments were made in my opinion… which, like all opinion, is subjective.
My argument was “disingenuous”? I think you have gone a bit “Shift-F7” happy, it was totally straight forward and candid, just because you don’t agree (and you missed the point, but that may be due to my inability to articulate).
Rape, Murder and Battery- feminist issues??? I would consider them human issues, but that’s just me.
I never accused women of being sexist, I pointed out, in my opinion, that Melinda and Kelly were being sexist…
My brain is “socialised” to objectify women? Let’s just remove objectification, for one moment, because I didn’t actually say that, I said “like”, (don’t worry, I will bring it back).
I find it odd that you characterise one of the most powerful survival mechanisms our brains possess as mere socialisation. As a species, our 4 most prevalent survival instincts are to: eat, drink, sleep and procreate. Unfortunately there is no budge on this fact, without playing to those instincts we would die. A further misfortune is that our brains have evolved over the past 100,000 years (although a recent dig has excavated bones that could be up to 110,000 bones, which also suggest that there may have been interspecies breeding with Neanderthals – now that’s ironic!) I digress, so over the past 100,000 years, we have been thinking like this. So we should probably take a quick look at what’s been happening over that time.
Caveman meets cavewoman, they have cavebaby…
Cavewoman (a different one) sees cave man, with a spear! Spear cavemen, can protect cavewoman and cavebaby even better, which means the chance of survival are even better (as a species).
Little cave people tribe, see another cave people tribe living in little community-more men for protection, more women to have babies – everyone is ‘happy’ (maybe not, but everyone’s hypothalamus is satisfied that its need for survival is being met) cave people join other cave people.
Tribe people realise that women with bigger hips don’t die in child birth as much (kind of a big thing in survival), and they were under the impression that bigger boobs meant more food for the babies (babies get bigger and stronger, survival is happy) Tribe people also realise that Tribe men with wider shoulders, bigger chests, bigger arms, faster runners etc etc, are better at protecting tribe.
Nothing much else exciting happened for the next 95,000 years or so – but our brains held on to these very important survival instincts. Men with muscles are good at protecting, women with big hips, boobs etc are good for having babies. While this arrangement may not qualify with your socialistic ideals, it was how it happened – this is not my opinion, it is scientifically proven beyond refute.
Now, hopefully you understand that. Because if you do it will make it a lot easier to understand why 95% of men do not, in fact, ‘objectify women’ -and I would like to go on record, hopefully for the last time – I AM NOT SAYING THAT WOMEN ARE NOT OBJECTIFIED BY MEN. I AM SAYING MOST OF US DON’T DO IT.
Let’s take a break from the science of evolution (we will kind of have to come back to it though, sorry) and take a quick look at the animal kingdom (of which we are a part of).
Let’s look at a group of animals with the closest DNA to humans – primates, specifically Apes (or is it chimps???) A recently post-adolescent male ape (say equivalent of an 18 year male human) and in all honesty if we remove ‘intelligence’ they pretty much act the same: ‘flexing’ for the females and throwing out challenges to other males (PJs in Tuggers on a Friday night is a good place to observe this). One of two things may happen to this ape, his challenge will be met and he will win, or lose. If he wins it will be his responsibility to protect his shrewdness/troop. And with the cooperation of the female apes making the troop lager. And the loser will wander off into the wilderness and die.
The same behaviours can be observed in most other animals (well at least in most pack mammals) Lions behave like the apes, as do kangaroos, bears, chickens, cows, deer, horses etc. While some will not use brute force, such as most birds, where the male has to impress the female with his singing, or plume of beautiful feathers. And while the males are doing all of this flexing and challenging, the females will be responsible for letting the males know when they are ready to mate – how? You may ask – “don’t be silly Anthony, animals can’t talk – this is just proof of your idiocy”… let’s go back to our good old friend, science.
How do animals know when to mate? They can’t talk, they can’t ask the girl ape out on a date, or propose marriage… Pheromones and ovulation maybe able to explain.
When females of most mammal species ovulate (including humans) a series of things happen during the process: The walls of the uterus will form a lining in anticipation of it hosting a house guest, and wants the little fella to be comfortable. The mammary glands will engorge to get ready to provide a series of good hearty meals to the infant and a plethora of other things in the female body – I would like to mention all the hormonal changes, but I wont even touch that with a 10’ pole. But I have to talk about just one.
The pheromone receptors in a female body go on overdrive, silently ‘smelling’ out pheromones (which are released by males) in hopes of finding the ‘best scent’. When a scent is found a few physiological changes will begin to occur.
Human women will actually begin to walk differently if they catch the right ‘smell’ and they are ovulating. they walk with less of a hip sway (they don’t want to advertise the fact from a distance, and they want to be picky about who gets the message), but when they’re not ovulating they walk with a more pronounced hip sway to increase our appeal to males. Now I don’t believe THAT is a product of the male sense of entitlement when probably 90% of women don’t know when they ovulate. At a very rough guess.
So let’s summerise (finally…) male brains are actually wired to look at boobs and hips and all sorts of other stuff – remember the survival stuff we talked about just before? In most cases it’s not objectification (please note the caps-lock sentence above) it’s purely looking for a suitable partner. Conversely the female brain actually does the same thing, big muscles etc ( but there has been a peculiar development with this, women have moved away from the “meat-axe” and towards the “intellectual” because they can be better providers).
This explains most of the behavior of some/most young adults (18-30) the guys will spend hours in a gym/uni getting strong/smart – and flaunting they’re protective abilities where ever possible, and the females will flaunt the fact that they are fertile and will be good carers.
I think you get my point (hopefully). Males are to act one way and females another, it’s primal, instinctual, natural – and not socially imposed.
Maybe one day our society will not function like this, but it’s the only way we came to where we are today.
And if anyone, strong intelligent feminists included, do want to be able to walk the streets at night, I can provide some information. It will take about 4 years of hard training, but what’s 4 years for piece of mind?
And I would just like to close by saying, I know some fantastic, incredible intelligent women, My boss is a female, her boss is too, and hers (who is the CEO). At no point have I held women (as a whole) in any regard other then a positive one, and I sincerely apologise if that has come across in any way. I just don’t like the actions of a few men, to give us all a bad name.
Wow Emma – thanks for the kind words, it’s a great relief to see someone understand what I am on about!
Anthony I’d be careful about using evolutionary psychology too much to justify the way things are. Aside from the fact that it is very easy to succumb to the naturalistic fallacy, there are cultural reasons for a lot of assumed norms today. For example:
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2010/09/07/sexism_neuroscience_interview/index.html
Body image norms are particularly difficult to justify. Larger women with smaller breasts were considered more sexually attractive in western culture relatively recently. That’s not to say that genetic factors aren’t in play, and that we aren’t slaves to some basic mammal instincts, but only that we really don’t know enough about the brain or genetics to make that kind of call yet. Even if we could, just because that was what evolution produced wouldn’t necessarily make it Right.
That said I’m not sure where I stand on this particular issue. My mother recently survived breast cancer, and is now involved in helping other survivors. She was at a point in her life where her breasts weren’t really important to her any more from a self-image or functional point of view, however, she’s pretty keen on anything that raises awareness and support for breast cancer. I’ll have to ask her how she feels about this next time I see her.
Arved
Thankyou for the link, I will be sure to read the artices.
I agree that my approach may have been too simplistic, and I also agree that nural wiring is not 100% evidence based. But my main goal here is to remove the “all men objectify women” attitude, and try and draw this back to moral issues with the advertisment.
Fantastic to read that your mother made a recovery, and now supports others, no one is better qualified.
Oh, Frolic – how silly of you to think that a big strong manly man who clearly knows more about women’s experience than, well, anyone – certainly more than women themselves – would be able to take you seriously unless you were anything other than a Laydee to him. Silly silly you.
Seriously, Anthony, dude. Read this: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/
And when you’re done, read the rest of these links: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/the-faqs/faq-roundup/
And then get a clue. You’re being offensive in the extreme.
Only me again…
I know it’s a little off topic, but while we’re talking about cancer, the link below, reached out to me (even made me teary).
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/hugh-jackman-nz-pm-star-in-man-with-cancers-video-gift-for-wife/story-e6frfmqi-1225913299891
My heart sank when I saw this campaign. My mother was diagnosed with grade 3 bilateral breast cancer in 2005, and when her surgeon asked what outcome she wanted, she said, “I want the cancer gone.” Which of course meant that both breasts had to go. Had she said, “Please save my breasts,” I am quite certain that she would not still be here – at the very least she would not have received her all clear earlier this year (currently living it up on a European trip, thank you very much).
I went with Mum one year on from the surgery when she was tired of clothes not fitting properly to be fitted for prostheses. After two surgeries to remove the breasts and lymph nodes as well as a total hysterectomy 18 months later, she does not want the pain of reconstructive surgery, and thankfully my father is supportive of her and still sees her as all woman – breasts, reproductive organs, or no. Not all women have this level of support or self confidence, and campaigns like this really reinforce the idea that to be sexy, to be womanly, we must, at all costs, “Save the boobies”. Give me a break. Breast cancer awareness and treatment should be aimed at providing the best possible health outcomes for the woman concerned, not how they will look in a low-cut top post-op.
Mum’s Mum died of breast cancer, Mum caught it early through vigilence and was treated approriately. I am only 32 but have started having mammograms and ultrasounds, and I hope that if I am ever diagnosed, I have the support from my husband and the bravery my Mum had to say, “just get rid of the cancer.” I also hope that people see that not all publicity is good publicity. I support most cancer related charities, and have no issues with buying a t-shirt and literally wearing my heart on my sleeve… but would NOT buy one of these shirts even if you paid me. It just sends the wrong message.
Tami, Dude.
Thanks for forwarding me those links, why you would direct me to a feminist website, particularly to a page which basically describes our ‘priveledge’ as woman having to take our last name in marrige, and men shouldn’t question ‘chick nights’ and that chivelary, while nice, is men advocated a system of inequality, is a little beyond me, but a good read none-the-less.
I will just state for the record, I do not believe in the institution of mariage – if you do want to see some really masogynistic sh!t read the bible – especially the old testament. Please don’t flame me for my religious views.
And if you had read my 5 other posts you will see that not once have I claimed to know anything about a womans experience. I have had my own experiences with cancer, some I have shared, some I will not.
But I think Lisa’s post should stop us all in our tracks, and make us think about the seriousness of cancer. It was also good to read that Lisa’s mum beat the cancer and has the support of her husband and daughter.
Anthony, the irony in you asking me why I’d direct you to a page about male privilege whilst you’re posting in a feminist space about feminist issues, trying to mansplain what teh little wimminz brainz can’t possibly understand about their own experiences – and, just to top it off, calling a woman a dude – is actually incredibly amusing. Obviously lost on you, but amusing nonetheless.
I assume you’re referring to breast cancer as a ‘feminist issue’? I would think of it as a health issue, that does reach far and wide, and touches a lot of people in one way or another – will I ever contract it? I sincerely hope not, and sincerely hope that no one in my family will contract it. Does this preclude me from having an opinion? I sure hope not either.
I was under the impression this was a website for female advocacy, where the rights and views of women were discussed and explored. Opposed to rampant right-wing feminist views being forced down the throats of readers. And should a reader put forward a different view, his comments are flamed just because this author has a penis… not quite what I had in mind about feminism.. but you sure have shown me Tami, dude, that feminists are flexible thinking, discussion invoking, open minded activists that habour no rage or anger, with a veiw to make it a positive world for who they are advocating, not just be pissed-off at everything…well done!
I must admit that I am a lot more versed in some of the issues that face women dealing with breast cancer and objectification, than I was 2 days ago – and I wish to thank those of you who helped me gain such insight.
I choose not to put gender to words if I don’t have to i.e. I call both males and females, dude, mate, buddy, champ, chief, etc. I suppose that’s just the ‘equalist’ in me.
And again, if you’d bother to read my posts, instead of making yourself look more like one of those angry right-winged feminists, you would note that in every post I have complemented women, soley based in the ones that I am privileged to know, especially when it comes to intellect.
What may have appeared as a condecending commentary on evolutionary phychology (one which I was pointed in the right direction about, from another reader/commenter) was directed at one person, who got stuck on the objectification train, which I assume runs at similar times to the ‘male privledge’ and ‘mansplain’ trains. What are they teaching in gender studies theses days… When I did it, alternate views were welcomed and explored, not flamed… From what it seems, it’s just an exercise to come up with concepts, such as male privledge to fuel the flames of rage and doing the very things (labling every man to be of the same evil) that they are fighting against….
Way to prove my point, there, Anthony.
Tami — before I say my piece, just a little about me. I’m 42, university educated (from a rural area where ‘girls didn’t go to uni’), single mum with two kids (boys). I am a feminist. I loath intolerance and bigotry. I have worked hard to get where I am, and I value those people, both male and female, who have helped and supported me to get where I am today. I was abused by a male teacher at high school, and believe me that has left some scars. But to hear the venom in your voice when you so ‘cleverly’ respond to a post is extremely disappointing. Do you think that you are doing the feminist cause any good by being a bigot yourself? Treating people with scorn is not a good look, no matter what your gender.
The reality of life is that there will always be people who either have a different opinion or a different view point from yours. You will not always be right. Treating those people with contempt because you disagree with them just proves that you are a fairly small minded person yourself.
I am not defending other people’s posts. I’m just arguing for their right to have and express an opinion. What the feminist movement needs more than anything level headed, persuasive argument. And proactive behaviour on our part. Stooping to scorn and derision doesn’t help anyone.
Not all men objectify women, and not all women feel objectified (I don’t). Moving past what appears to be your own bitterness and feelings of victimisation might help.
No doubt you’ll have some acerbic comment on my post as well. Go to it.
I am totes a feminist and I think you bitches should shut up and let the man speak. I went to uni and am going to present that as a valid reason for my attempt to silence your discussion, despite having no knowledge whatsoever of your own education status. And I can do that because I am a feminist, because I said so! MY feminism is the ONLY valid branch of feminism, besides I’m really old so I totally get the final say here.
And I’m not irony deficient! There’s no irony in saying that everyone has the right to an opinion while trying to silence yours. Shaddup! I’m a feminist!!
You’re just angry. There’s not even any real reason to be angry, you’re just making it up! Ok, so maybe there’s a small problem with…y’know, rape, murder, battery and objectifying and offensive advertising campaigns and stuff, but you shouldn’t be angry! It’s not feminine. Shaddup! I’m a feminist! You shouldn’t be sarcastic, that’s also not feminine. Let the man speak, whydoncha??! MY feminism is all about empowermentfulling Good Girls that know their place. I WENT TO UNI, why won’t you be silenced by me??!
Old and educated… lol. That was pretty bloody funny! And in the words of the tolerant Tami, way to prove my point.
Talk about touchy, I don’t have a problem with anyone expressing an opinion, and I’m certainly not telling people to shut up. Just asking for a little tolerance and to tone down the bitchy comments. It’s not useful, it’s counter productive.
If you want to enter into dialog in an adult way, this is exactly the wrong way to go about it. But I’m sure it made you feel good.
Next…
I appricate your comments Emma, and I think you personify what I considered to be a feminist. i.e. open to discussion, level headed, intelligent and commited to your cause.
It has also proven a very good point to me, I thought all the flaming was because i have a wang, but I think that some of these ‘feminists’ are just allergic to common sense – at the sight of it they proceed to write incomprehensible comments, and butcher the English language within an inch of it’s life – maybe some Clarintine would help…
Somepeople
Thier (their?)
alot
posses
lets
my self
scantly
for piece of mind (peace?)
other then a positive (than?)
marrige
priveledge (privilege?)
masogynistic (misogynistic?)
womans (woman’s?)
habour
veiw
soley
condecending
phychology
privledge
theses
privledge
labling
appricate
commited
Look, I’m not going to argue with pseudo feminists that are so invested in retaining their privilege they cannot or will not even accept it exists. It’s futile, it’s a waste of my energy.
Read widely, think critically, learn to spell. Have a nice day 🙂
Lol thanks for the typo alert!
No worries, although I’d argue it was less typos and more “butchering the English language within an inch of it’s life” 😉
But if explaining them away as careless typing rather than poor literacy skills (I ignored the numerous punctuation omissions, random and often non-existent capitalisation etc) helps you to save face, no skin off my nose *snigger*
Oh, I get it! You’re satirists, using humour to explain to the world why it’s ludicrous to claim to be a feminist whilst denying the existence of male privilege, or oppression of women, and whilst silencing women who disagree with the current male-centric paradigm inherent in society, including popular culture, media, and advertising! Of COURSE nobody could really be so stupid as to fail to see the irony in that! It’s brilliant, brilliant I say! Bravo!
I am ammused by people who say stuff like “I am not sexist, but…”, “I am not racist, but…”, I am not going to waste energy, but I will trawl your posts for spelling, and punctuation errors. And when I find them I am going to post as my comment, then people will discredit his posts, and it will make me look like a very intellectual person, because I can spell and know where to put a full stop. Then people will also not notice I can not, in fact, make an intellectual contribution to the issue.”
I do concede that I am not a very good writer.
Ahh Tami, dude, I was wondering when you would bless us with another witty comment, and you sure didn’t disapoint!
At no time have I ever claimed to be a feminist (I am an equalist), nor have I denied the existance of privilege, I merely pointed out that sexualising it (i.e. male privilege) is beyond ignorant and inflamatory – it provides the connotation that if you are a man, then you have ‘male privilege’ and thus should be burned at the stake… burned twice if you ever had an opinion.
(there are a few spelling errors and omissions of punctuation in there just for you Frolic)
Oooh, oooh! Bingo!!
http://hoydenabouttown.com/20070414.431/anti-feminist-bingo-a-master-class-in-sexual-entitlement/
Anthony, you’re hilarious! It was actually -yourself- that accused others of “butchering the English language” in an attempt to discredit their argument. Your projection issues are pretty funny. 😀
I merely pointed out your own inability to spell in the hope you’d realise that those who live in glass houses ought not to throw dictionaries…
Yes, I can spell, yes I am privileged enough to have been educated (at a tertiary level too, just like Emma! ;-)) but in addition to my grammatical abilities, I can also engage in fair, constructive debate without needing to “win”, without needing to feign intellect due to an inherent lack, without needing to post overly verbose messages filled with drivel in the hope I can bamboozle with bullsh!t.
Can you?
I think it may be a little more than education Frolic, I would suggest that Microsoft would have something to do with it. You see my academic friend, Microsoft products have English (US) as their default language, which is fine for most writing, the one area that is does have a slight failing is the use of ‘z’ in words by Americans, where English (AU) prefers ‘s’. Only a small difference, so for example: ‘socialized’ would be an American spelling, where as ‘socialised’ would be Australian. so lets go further with this example; a sentence like “Your brain isn’t “wired” to “like” anything. Your brain is socialized to objectify women.” would indicate the author to either be American, or using a program[me] (just to keep with your preference for US writing) to QA their comments before posting.
What I also find astonishing is your claim that I am using ineffective communication techniques to ‘bamboozle’ people, when you have been using (out of context) words like “disingenuous”. And the butchering i was refering to was words mispelt on purpose e.g. ” laydeez ” etc.
So yes, your attendance to Microsoft Word for beginners (spell check and thesaurus) is a truly impressive feat.
Tami, dude, you getting very good with the copy and paste feature, keep up the good work sport.
Anthony, it’s pretty clear that you’re determined to be ‘right’, at the exclusion of everything – including hearing others’ points of view. Which equates to be an arsehole to people who don’t agree with you, it seems. You’re not debating fairly, you’re ‘right fighting’. When your behaviour has been pointed out to be entitled, arrogant, hypocritical, and misogynist – instead of acknowledging that (or even the POSSIBILITY thereof) and going about minimising the damage you are potentially causing, you have gone on to attack the people who are calling you out on extremely poor behaviour. It’s not that I don’t get it – it is hard growing and changing, and being told you’re being an arsehole is really difficult and liable to make even the most introspective and critically thinking person go on the defensive.
I challenge you to stop invading one of the very rare safe places on the internet for women, go and do as Frolic suggested in reading widely, thinking critically, and would add my own suggestion of refraining from commenting when only to tell a woman how wrong she is because you, as an ‘objective’ man, obviously have more sense than her, as a hysterical woman. When participating in discussions about women’s experiences, you would be far better served asking questions and actually LISTENING to the answers – rather than dismissing them outright and overwriting their scripts with your own, male-centric, entitled, and privileged version simply because it makes you uncomfortable to hear what they are saying about their own experiences in their lives.
And on that note, I leave you with Frolic’s thoughts:
“Look, I’m not going to argue with pseudo feminists that are so invested in retaining their privilege they cannot or will not even accept it exists. It’s futile, it’s a waste of my energy.
Read widely, think critically, learn to spell.”
I have just reread my post, and came to the ugly realisation that I have sunk to your level. All I was trying to achieve in my earlier posts was to discuss the issues regarding the advertising campaign.
I personally believe there are some great feminists out there doing some fantastic work, but the ones I have encountered here are nothing short of a vile bunch of fanatics, that will prevent the key messages of feminism of being heard by the masses.
I am withdrawing from any further discusion, and should have done so long ago, not because I regret anything i’ve said about the issue, but for being selfish and not letting people discuss the actual issues. I suggest you extremeists also leave the floor open for serious discussions.
Cheers to everyone for all of the emails of support, and those on Facebook who have also supported me. I am glad I was able to voice the concerns you were to scared to.
My email address is on my first post if anyone wishes to have a normal discussion.
Untill next time
Hooray for boobies!
Actually, I retract everything I’ve said here, including my post above. I realise I have behaved like a belligerent, overly-entitled prat and for that I openly and wholeheartedly apologise. I didn’t want to admit it but I really think some of the posters here have made some really valid points.
I’ve learn so much, thank you to all of you who have remained so patient despite my rude, patronising and ignorent monolog.
Heh, all three supporters on facebook eh Anthony?! That’s a bit funny.
I’d like to thank my family, my non-existent but probably awesome deity, my first teacher in kindergarten, her name I’ve since forgotten and all the other people that absolutely totally agree with me, heaps more than those that agree with Anthony. :-p
But thank you for your apology, it actually means a lot. It’s really nice when someone can take a step back, reconsider, reflect, learn and grow. With absolutely no intention of being patronising, good for you. 🙂
as a young woman i actually find this type of campaign damaging.
i can’t imagine going and seeing my doctor (who happens to be a lovely man) and getting him to perform a routine breast exam on me when the slogan attached is “cop a feel.” it becomes uncomfortable, as though women are inviting their doctors to “feel them up.”
I actually think it could make it harder for women to want to have proper breast exams performed on them – which is the opposite effect to the intention of the campaign!
and while i’m pro-sex, i certainly don’t expect to have to have sex thrust on to me – something as innocent as a breast exam is already embarrassing and uncomfortable in front of the doctor, sexualising it just makes it even more awkward given that both parties (doctor and patient) are trying to neutralise the situation so it is at non-sexual as possible.
the phrase “cop a feel” is just gross and demeaning. i wonder also, if it could be confusing for patients as to how the breast exam is supposed to be done. the language implies feeling the breast as though you are feeling someone up sexually, and i wonder if doctors can get away with feeling their patients up without the patients realising they are being ‘had’ – with this kind of language describing what should be a non-sexual medical exam!
I was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer at 39 and endured a year of surgery, chemo and radiotherapy. I have a lot of problems with these types of awareness campaigns. Cancer and cancer treatment is not ‘cute’ or ‘fun’. It’s fucking awful. No matter which surgical option you choose…lumpectomy or mastectomy… the sum total of treatments leaves you permanently altered and it is a huge struggle to view yourself as the same woman. Unfortunately, our breasts are inherently tied to our perceptions of sexuality and it’s hard to feel ‘cute’ about your ‘boobies’ when they’re scarred, suffering nerve damage, lymphodema, or not there. These kinds of campaigns make me feel uncomfortable and shows a stunning lack of empathy for women who are left mutilated (and thats how many patients feel) by cancer.
It may surprise some people however, that I agree somewhat with Ellen who posted earlier about the lack of attention to ‘brown’ cancers. I am concerned that breast cancer awareness has become it’s own industry. And for what purpose? Ask any oncologist or breast surgeon. They know that the cast majority of women do NOT self check their breasts. They hear it everyday. Yes, I’ve asked them. For the one or two women who check themselves religiously, millions do not. I didn’t and found my cancer by accident.
Meanwhile, organisations like the NBCF sells brand ‘licences’ to the likes of Coca-Cola for a paltry $100k per year, and yet we think when we buy a bottle of water we’re doing something positive to help victims of breast cancer.
I had a rare breast cancer referred to as Triple Negative. There is no follow up treatment to give me any ‘insurance’ and if it recurs within the next two years I will most likely die. But there is currently very little research going on into this form of BC because there is no money available (so I am told).
I believe that science will eventually rid us of cancers. Something like the cervical cancer vaccine is hopefully just around the corner. But cute/funny awareness campaigns will not, in my view, contribute to this outcome. Better for the funds to be spent on the nerdy, unsexy science boffins who will help save women’s lives.
Rachael, thank you so much for sharing your experiences. Good luck with your journey. xx
I work with women who are dealing with breast cancer: with the awful time of diagnosis, then invasive investigations, integration into the hospital system which many of them have never experienced before and the new experience of thinking of themselves as ‘sick’; I see them undergo surgery and their early recovery. Then, many of them go on to radiotherapy or chemotherapy or both, and work through the physical and mental toll each takes.
There’s no doubt that preserving as much of their breast/s as possible is important to many of them. It is just that as an issue, it pales in significance to the preservation of their lives.
Here is the aspect of the awareness campaigns you’ve described which is most shocking to me: there are no 60 year olds. Where are the Margarets, the Susans, and the Marias? Where are the Wendys? The Glendas and the Ruths? Because my patient population is made up mostly of women aged 50 to 75, women whose breasts have fed babies, been through many bra sizes, succumbed somewhat to the drag of gravity and softened due to menopause.
I want to see their breasts being represented as much as these young women’s are.
Rachael: the institution I work at is about to take part in an Australia-wide trial of a new hormonal therapy aimed at treating triple negative breast cancers. It starts in November. Please know that though it has taken a long time, it truly bothers the medical profession that there are few good options for cancers such as yours.
I sincerely hope that the treatments you’ve been through will be successful.
I think that while the ad’s campaign is “rethink” and they’re trying to find an alternative way to get people talking/thinking about breast cancer, it should have been very obvious that many people would/could find it offensive.
They can certainly say they achieved their objective, if that’s what it was.
But sexualising breasts ? Can’t agree.
They were never *not* sexual, but that is only one of several attributes andfcharacteristics that they have, both for men and women.
And sexualising breast cancer campaings? Quite frankly, whatever works to get the message over, keep women maintaining their health and keeping it in the mind of the public conscience is good with me.
The reason I say this is that because breast cancer has had many champions and campaigns over the years and subsequently has a slight risk of being missed due to the general population becoming desensitised to it. Those of us who live with the spectre of it know this.
Since this ad effectively brings it back up as a burning topic while grabbing everyone’s attention then I’m for it.
Finally, one point I really must object to. The article says
“Is it any wonder that the less ‘sexy’ cancer causes find it more of a struggle to attract funding and donations?”.
No, it’s not. What’s your point? They have to find their own methods. AIDS used scare tactics, cars use cool music, breast cancer is using sexy breasts. litter ones use catchy jingles, toy ads use happy kids.
That question is just silly.